Episode 96- Chelsea Glass, Heart of Travel

Travel

Sep. 28

Travel is about conscious journeys and decisions about tourism, which seek to respect and preserve local environments, cultures, and economies. Sustainable tourism is the solution in which tourism is conducted over a long period without adversely impacting natural and cultural environments. In terms of tourism, sustainable means traveling in ways that do not restrict the opportunity for future generations to also explore the world.

Today, we're gonna learn how a journey to Guatemala has led Christine’s guest, Chelsea Glass to where she is now.

Some of the things that really resonated with Christine and why she wanted to have Chelsea on the podcast is because Chelsea is so passionate about responsible and sustainable travel and really believes in the power of travel to improve local economies and break down barriers.

Christine knows that that is something they both try to bring into all of the work that they do, whether it's something that is really stated out front or whether it's just a part of the container that they’re creating. People slowly get to understand that that's something they're a part of.

Chelsea Glass was born and raised in California and first began studying Spanish at the age of 19. After more than a decade immersed in the language, along with her post-graduate studies in Spanish at CSU Sacramento, Chelsea is a fluent Spanish speaker and experienced language instructor.

From 2012 to 2016, Chelsea worked in both tourism and language education (Spanish and ESL) while pursuing her M.A. in Spanish before moving back full time to Guatemala in 2017 to start Heart of Travel.

Chelsea has a deep passion for authentic travel and aims to dispel preconceived ideas and notions about Latin American cultures through small group trips. She now currently resides in Antigua, Guatemala with her partner, Luis Miguel, and two baby girls Madi & Nati.

In our conversation, Chelsea and Christine talk about how her first trip to Guatemala and her love of the Spanish language truly changed the course of her life. This deep passion Chelsea has comes through in this interview and in the experiences she offers in Guatemala and Latin America.

Christine and Chelsea also spend some time talking about the importance of mentors and community and how these connections are what helped them to get through the challenges they faced in the pandemic. We also share how we found more harmony by embracing our feminine energy and balancing our masculine energy in business.

Lastly, we have a mini love fest for our mutual friend, Kelly Lewis. So if you find yourself wanting to learn more about Kelly, make sure you go back and listen to episode 24.

Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Chelsea Glass.

In this episode, Christine and Chelsea discuss:

Chelsea’s first trip to Guatemala and the impact that had on her
Why Chelsea has a love of the Spanish language and how it truly changed the course of her life
The importance of having mentors and a community and how these connections are what helped Chelsea to get through the challenges she faced in the pandemic
How Christine and Chelsea found more harmony by embracing their feminine energy and balancing their masculine energy in business
The different experiences Chelsea offers travelers who want a unique travel experience
Why supporting local businesses when traveling makes the most impact within the community

Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode

To learn more about Chelsea Glass and Heart of Travel, head to https://heartoftravel.org/

Follow Heart of Travel on your favorite social media platform to stay up to date about their new adventures:

LinkedIn | @heart-of-travel

Twitter | @heart_of_travel

Instagram | @heartoftravel__

Facebook | @theheartoftravel

Join me for my Women’s Wilderness and Yoga Retreat in Alaska in March 2023!

We’ll be traveling 63 miles north of the Arctic Circle to stay at Arctic Hive, owned by my friend Mollie Busby and her husband Sean. This boutique property nestled in the Brooks Range is way off the beaten path and also off grid. We’ll stay in beautiful cabins built by hand by our hosts, practice yoga in their yoga dome lovingly referred to as The Hive, with gorgeous views of the surrounding nature.

We’ll explore the wilderness by snowshoe and dog sled, connect with members of the local community to learn about living in this remote environment, enjoy daily yoga practice and vegan meals all while keeping our eye out for the beautiful northern lights that like to show off their magic this time of year.

I only have 6 spaces for this unique adventure and a few are already taken. Hop over to the Lotus Sojourns website to book yours today.

Please share this experience with anyone you know would love this restorative adventure.

Want to learn more, you can listen to my Soul of Travel conversation, episode 67 with Mollie Busby

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WE WON A BESSIE AWARD! The Bessie Awards recognize the achievements of women and gender-diverse people making an impact in the travel industry. To view the complete list of this year’s winners, visit bessieawards.org.

About the Soul Of Travel Podcast

Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of the people making a positive impact in tourism. In each episode, you’ll hear the story of women who are industry professionals and seasoned travelers and community leaders who know travel is more than a vacation. It is an opportunity for personal awareness and it is a vehicle for change. We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart-centered change makers.

The guests work in all sectors of the tourism industry. You'll hear from adventure-based community organizations, social impact businesses, travel photographers and videographers, tourism boards and destination marketing organizations, and transformational travel experts. They all honor the idea that travel is more than a vacation and focus on sustainable travel, eco-travel, community-based tourism, and intentional travel.

These conversations are meant to educate, inspire and create community. They are directed to new travelers and seasoned travelers, as well as industry professionals and those who are curious about a career in travel.

If you want to learn about new destinations, types of travel, or how to be more intentional or live life on purpose, join Christine Winebrenner Irick for soulful conversations with her community of fellow travelers exploring the heart, the mind, and the globe. These conversations highlight what tourism really means for the world.

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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor.) Chelsea Glass (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing and production by Rayna Booth.

Transcript

KEYWORDS

travel, people, spanish, guatemala, women, community, trip, create, guatemalan, necessarily, life, country, world, person, business, opportunity, bit, conversation, sharing, happen

Christine Winebrenner Irick 00:08

Thank you for joining me for soulful conversations with my community of fellow travelers, exploring the heart, the mind and the globe. These conversations highlight what travel really means for the world. Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of the people making a positive impact in tourism. Each week, I'll be speaking to women who are tourism professionals, world travelers and leaders in their communities will explore how travel has changed them and how that has rippled out and inspired them to change the world. These conversations are as much about travel as they are about passion, and living life with purpose, chasing dreams, building businesses, and having the desire to make the world a better place. This is a community of people who no travel is more than a vacation. It is an opportunity for personal awareness, and it is a vehicle for change. We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart centered change makers I'm Christine Winebrenner Irick. And this is the Soul of Travel.

Chelsea Glass was born and raised in California, and first began studying Spanish at the age of 19. After more than a decade immersed in the language along with her postgraduate studies in Spanish at CSU Sacramento. Chelsea is a fluent Spanish speaker and an experienced language instructor. Chelsea has a deep passion for authentic travel and aims to dispel preconceived ideas and notions about Latin American culture through her small group trips. She is currently residing in Antigua, Guatemala with her partner, Luis Miguel and her two baby girls, Madi and Nati and our conversation Chelsea and I talk about how her first trip to Guatemala and her love of the Spanish language truly changed the course of her life.

This deep passion she has comes through in this interview, and in the experiences she offers in Guatemala and Latin America, She and I spend some time talking about the importance of mentors and community and how these connections are what helped us to get through the challenges we faced in the pandemic. We have a mini love fest for our mutual friend, Kelly Lewis. So if you find yourself wanting to learn more about Kelly, make sure you go back and listen to episode 24. We share how we found more harmony by embracing our feminine energy and balancing our masculine energy in business. I enjoyed this conversation so much, it's got me really excited about this next season of soul travel. Join me now for my soulful conversation with Chelsea glass. Welcome to soul of travel, I am so excited to be having my second interview and the fourth season. And this season is so different because I'm really able to pull in members of my community that have been standing beside me the last two years and Chelsea is definitely one of those people. So Chelsea, I'm so glad to have you here. Welcome to the podcast.

03:37

Oh my gosh, no, thank you so much. I'm really excited to be here. And I can't wait to dive into all of the exciting topics we're going to talk about today.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 03:44

Yeah, thank you. Me too. For our listeners, Chelsea was born and raised in California and first began studying Spanish at the age of 19. And we're gonna learn how that journey has led her to where she is. Now, some of the things that really resonate for me and why I wanted you on is because you're so passionate about responsible and sustainable travel and really believe in the power of travel to improve local economies and break down barriers. And I think that that is something we both try to bring into all of the work that we do, whether it's something that is really started out front, or whether it's just a part of the container that we're creating. And people slowly get to understand that that's something they're a part of. So those are some of the things that I hope that we'll bring into this conversation. But before we get going, I'd love to give you the opportunity to just introduce yourself and tell our listeners who you are in the space of travel right now, which as we know is ever evolving. But yeah, just give us a little insight into who you are.

04:52

Definitely. So yeah, my name is Chelsea. It seems that I'm originally from California, but I've been living in Guatemala. On and off for about 13 years. And at the very end of 2016, I started a company called Heart of travel. I had previously worked in the travel industry here in Guatemala before that. And I really wanted to be able to create these experiences for people where they were going to come and enjoy a trip that had a more meaningful component, a more meaningful connection with people, and where their economic impact on communities was going to be as positive and as big as possible. So now we are offering organized group tours to a variety of different destinations in Latin America, with Guatemala being kind of our headquarters. And so we take people to Cuba, to Mexico, to Ecuador, to Colombia, on trips that are anywhere usually from one to two weeks long, and you can get immersed in culture, have adventures, we like to kind of offer people a comprehensive look at a country. And we really like to dive into kind of breaking down some of those myths and misconceptions about a lot of the destinations that we visit. Yeah. And then in addition to that, we also offer online opportunities to learn Spanish. And our program is specifically designed for people who are interested in travel or relocation to Latin America.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 06:06

Awesome. Thank you so much for that. Well, as we get to understand your journey, I would love to learn a little bit more about how what I like to say is how travel found you or when you knew that travel was going to play such an important part of your life? Would you mind sharing a little bit of that journey with us?

06:25

Yeah, definitely. So growing up, we didn't do too much international travel as a family, we did do one big trip when I was maybe like five years old to Italy for a family reunion. International travel wasn't something that I grew up doing, it was something I grew up wanting to do. And my grandma Jane, she traveled quite a bit. In her second marriage, she and her husband traveled a lot. And so she would always come back and have a magnet or a t- shirt or something to be like I was in Guam or I was in Alaska, or I was in Mexico, and all these cool places. And so that really kind of piqued my interest. And it was actually a book that I found on her coffee table at her house when I was like 16, or 17 years old, with all this gorgeous photography of this town in Mexico that her brother had actually been living in for a really long time.

So my great uncle, and that was when I was like, I have to start traveling. So as soon as I had the opportunity at age 19, to get on a plane and go on my first solo trip abroad, I took it, I didn't necessarily at the time think that it was going to turn into a life long, like life in Guatemala, or that it was going to result in me even necessarily working in the travel industry. At that point, I just knew I wanted to travel and I didn't have the concept that I think a lot of us young, idealistic people have that I wanted to do something with my life that was meaningful, and, you know, hopefully contributing more positively to the world than negatively. So that was where I was at 17. I wanted to travel and I wanted to try and be a good person. But I really didn't have any idea how that was going to unfold.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 08:01

When you were talking about that, it reminded me and I was actually just talking about this with my daughter in my bedroom growing up, and how kids now I don't think do this, but how we had posters everywhere from magazines. And I was like, well, one, I don't think my kid has ever bought a magazine. So that's part of that, because they get everything on social media and online. But I had, you know, my pictures of the movie stars. But I also had pictures of Jamaica and Mexico and Africa and Australia. And, like, equal reverence and like equal impossibility of reaching kind of like they were far far exceeded, like what I understood to be possible. It's so interesting to hear how travel starts to show up. And I kind of forgot that I had those things on my walls until she had that conversation and like you're finding that book and you're like, wait a second, this is something that might be possible when someone you know, introduced to, like, kind of bridges that gap of possibility. Mm hmm. Well, what was one of the first trips that you took or an early trip that really began to shape, maybe connecting what you can do in travel, or with travel as a tool for good for you?

09:18

Yeah, so my very first trip, I was actually here to Guatemala, it was March of 2010. And I had actually signed up with a program where they were going to put me in a homestay, so I could add a place, you know, a roof over my head, and I was gonna have an opportunity to interact with family locally, and they set up my Spanish classes, and they actually set up like a volunteer placement. So my feelings towards that type of paying the half as volunteer experience abroad has shifted pretty dramatically since that time 13 years ago. But that was how I initially came to Guatemala. And in my mind, that was a way for me to have a positive impact. That experience allowed me to realize that it's really difficult to have a positive In fact, even if that's your greatest intention, if you do not necessarily have the knowledge and the skills and are also willing to commit the time to see through a project that can actually have a measurable impact.

So the experience that I had was very great for me. And it opened my eyes a lot. And it gave me a lot of growth. I don't know really whether or not my impact, and my placement was positive or negative, or neutral, I like to think that it was probably more neutral than negative, My intentions were definitely great. But I was placed in the infant malnutrition ward in a public hospital, when I didn't speak Spanish, didn't know anything about Guatemala, I had zero medical experience, and was actually a little bit afraid of hospitals. So it was lots of growth for me. But as I've gotten older, and I've reflected on that, I'm like, that goes almost potentially even hazardous. Really, if you think about it, it wasn't qualified. And I was probably making the nursing staff harder because they had to, I was one more person to figure out what to do with.

So that for me, immediately, that first trip made me start to question a lot of the things that I had really solidly believed to be true that I was gonna go travel, and I was gonna volunteer, and I was going to, you know, a lot of the things that we're talking about now, these terms we hear kind of about, like, you know, centering yourself in a trip or white savior ism, and those types of things. And it's a delicate topic. And I definitely don't think that service trips are impossible to do correctly. But I do think that there's become this commercialization of like, trips to give back to communities, and a lot of times, they're falling flat. So that initial trip was very illuminating for me.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 11:39

Thank you so much for sharing that. So candidly, because I think that's something that comes up a lot. And I think, especially for people that have ended up focusing their career on impactful travel, I think a lot of us started there. And it was that awareness and that uncomfortable feeling and noticing who we were in the space of that experience, you know, after reflecting upon it, usually later that we realize, wait a second, I think there might be something in the way we set about to do this that isn't working. And again, like you said, like you have the best of intentions, the program you went with probably was full of the best intentions. And yet, when we are not fully immersed in a destination, we often don't understand the need that needs to be met. And we are doing something in a way that really is more self serving than community serving. And so I think it's really helpful for people, like you said, not to discount trips that are created to serve the community, because I do think people now are asking questions in a different way, and creating projects that are more long lived and sustainable. And they are seeing things from beginning to end. And they're educating their communities of travelers before they come. So I think there's some different ways to engage in that. But I think many of us started out with this idea of I am going to volunteer and this was another thing I was just thinking about. I'm getting ready to go to the adventure travel World Summit. I went like probably 15 or 16 years ago at the very beginning of my career, and I was really focused on voluntourism, and I was actually working with someone else to do, like we were going to do what we call like the voluntourism roadshow and go around and speak to people about it. And I was like, just a pause right and thinking, wow, things have changed in that space of time. So I just really appreciate that story.

13:39

Yeah. And I think there has been, I think, this kind of moment where as a collective community, people are starting to come to certain realizations. And we've seen a lot of these things happening over the last few years, with all of the division that there is currently in places like the United States, and I think globally, it's led to some really uncomfortable conversations.

But I do think some good things have come out of it, because I do think at least more people are going wait, maybe I don't know, everything I need to know to make informed decisions or like I think some people are starting to realize that we don't know everything and that and listening a little bit more. And I am seeing a shift like we even do have some nonprofits that reach out to us that want to see if we can coordinate trips. And we're really upfront about what we're comfortable with and where we draw certain lines. And I think a lot I found a lot of places who are even trying to shift things instead of calling things like a mission trip.

They're calling it like a vision, ship and instruction more around like having people come to learn and have some interaction. And also like traveling and just being responsible. The way you spend your money can have a really big impact too. And so even just the way they're framing things and trying to have it be a little bit more like come and learn as opposed to come and serve immediately without having had had learned. So I'm definitely seeing some positive shifts. So I'm excited to see how things can improve Given this space, because I do think that travel can be really transformative. And I do think that there are people who have a lot of skills and talents that they want to share that could be harnessed well in other areas. But I think it's just the approach of figuring those programs out. And so I think there are a lot of people who are starting to work on changing up the kind of more community service oriented tour world. So I'm excited to see what happens there.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 15:25

Yeah. And I love that you mentioned too, in terms of creating a positive impact when you travel, of asking, How can I be a more sustainable or responsible traveler, because that is something that is totally possible for any traveler to make choices. And they can, you know, make one or two choices that may have a seemingly small impact, but I think probably have a greater impact than we imagined. And they can be broader when you are bringing travelers to Guatemala and talking about that, or building your itinerary so that they focus on that, what are a few things that you build into your experiences that

16:00

serve that? Definitely. So it's a great question. So obviously, we're always looking to support as much as we can small, locally owned businesses, right. And so a lot of times, that means getting a little bit outside of the historic center of Antigua. So this town that I live in, is definitely a touristy city, not in an overly commercial- like high rise kind of way. But there are a lot of tours that are passing through as well as people who've decided to relocate for extended stays, or perhaps forever.

And so it's this kind of mix of a town, it's really cool. But you obviously have a lot of foreign investment, or not even necessarily foreign investment, but you have businesses that are basically Guatemalan corporations, because Guatemala, there's a lot of capitalism here. And there's a lot of monopolies here as well. And that's not something that you're necessarily going to know if you don't really know what I'm on. And so you don't necessarily know who actually owns the umbrella brand that owns the hotel that you're at, right, that's almost impossible to know, unless you are in the know. And so we're always looking for this to happen, we support locally owned businesses and small businesses, right? Because there are not a lot of opportunities for financing here in Guatemala, I truly think that a huge factor behind things like immigration, is the lack of solid employment opportunities in countries like Guatemala.

So the job market here is really, there is not a lot of opportunity. And so you have people who are very well educated, very willing, very able to work, but there aren't necessarily dignified employment opportunities for them. So a lot of people turn to entrepreneurism. But there's also not a lot in terms of affordable financing available to people, not necessarily a ton in terms of, you know, courses, there's a lot more resources for people trying to get a small business off the ground in the United States, at least in my experience, and even with those resources, it's incredibly difficult. So when I think about the challenges that somebody's trying to get a business off the ground, here's facing when they don't have something like the SBA, who can walk them through a loan, with an unreasonable interest rate and a long term loan plan, like well, you don't have access to that, it's really hard to establish a business. So I feel like if people are able to establish businesses, that's going to give them more autonomy over how they want to live their lives, how they want to portray themselves, their country, the way that they want.

Like they get to decide the terms of their job, and hopefully have a higher opportunity to earn a better wage or create a better living for themselves. So for me, I'm like, if there's one thing we can do, supporting small businesses, and and yeah, supporting small businesses, and then giving them the opportunity to develop a more stable income flow for their business, that is something we're so so passionate about. So we have a variety of people who are full time staff at the heart of travel. And also like my big goal is for them to have really, really solid secure jobs. But in addition to them, it's really supporting small businesses, because we don't. I don't want a million people working for us. We want to be working with a bunch of other really awesome business owners like that's our goal is, how can our business simultaneously held by Ron Watkins business grow and so that everybody is working together? And trying to kind of get away from more of that hierarchy of we're doing this and everyone's working for us? No, we're trying to all literally work together.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 19:28

That was such a great thing to have. I really appreciate it because that is something that comes up a lot. And I mean, even kind of the off the cuff tip that I usually say is to support local businesses. But like you said, it is really difficult sometimes to understand if you are in fact doing that when you're traveling. And I've seen that in Guatemala and Belize and Peru in many countries where tourism is well and in most countries tourism is the chief economy, you know force and so, then you do get outside investors.

And you do have the hierarchy that you see of, you know, the most people with the most money have the most power and they create these things. And then you don't know when you're going to that storefront, it seems like a locally owned business, but you don't realize that it's this conglomerate that owns it. And even if it is a Guatemalan, or you know, whatever the country is, or the city, even in the US, you see this a lot in tourist cities where one organization will come in and buy the t shirt shop, and the coffee shop and a hotel, and all of a sudden, and they look like they're all local, small businesses. And it's okay to support those, I guess, because they are employing other people.

But at the same time, like, if you're really seeking that intimate local connection, you have to see through this facade that has been created. And I think a lot of people aren't aware of what that looks like. So I appreciate that we were able to kind of bring that in and give people another way of looking at it and asking questions and trying to understand who they are supporting when they travel.

21:04

Yeah, definitely. So yeah, I think supporting small businesses is really, really, that's really easy, because it requires some research. But that's like a great rule of thumb, like, okay, if I'm gonna be planning out my trip, what are some of the small businesses that I can support? And trying to just keep that at the forefront? Because I think a lot of times, it's for people like you and I, who are working in this industry, and we're thinking about this all the time, it seems really simple, right? Like, a lot of times, I feel like I give people tips that to me, I'm like, this seems like am I even giving them enough tips.

But then when I think about it, I'm like, people who are not in this industry all day, every day and are living their everyday regular lives, they might not have the time to even stop and think about how I can make sure my, the economic impact of my upcoming trip is better. Like, I don't fault people for not being able to do that. Because it's not necessarily something that comes out easily. But there are things that you can do, some of which are not that difficult, or that much time consuming, that does ensure that your trip can have a better impact. So yeah, I think that it's understandable how, as individuals, you know, we can only do so much within a system that is broken. And as much as I would love to try to dismantle and fix the system in my lifetime, I don't know whether or not that's gonna happen. But if I can try at least in my smaller circle, offset, and try to make sure at least our impact is good. While we're trying to at least start the dialogues to hopefully one day dismantle some of these systems, I've made peace with that, that's probably what's going to happen in my lifetime. Because I used to want to be able to fix everything. And if you try to fix everything, you're gonna see nothing, right.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 22:46

Yeah, boy, that was a conversation that I've spent a lot of time in with myself as well. You mentioned community in the context of how you're building your business, I think this is something that's really important to both of us. And having kind of your business was a little bit further along. But we both had relatively newly launched businesses when the pandemic hit. And so community was something that we definitely needed. And in the context of the tourism industry, thinking about supporting women in travel, I think that is something that just exponentially grew.

I don't know if it's because my focus became even more dialed in on that during that time. It's something I've always had my eye on. But I think the amount of communities that reached out to me to ask if I want to be a part of them was definitely more. What has been a part of a strong community of other women owned businesses in this industry meant to you. And I want to give a quick shout out to Kelly Lewis, who's been on the podcast as well. But that's where you and I met. And honestly, I'm pretty sure I'd be done if there hadn't been conversations, some challenging conversations, some emotional conversations, conversations that you don't expect to have in the context of business. That happened over the last two and a half years, I guess now. But what has that meant for you and your business?

24:10

Yeah, I mean, I can definitely say that if it weren't for Kelly Lewis, I don't necessarily think that I would be in this business anymore right now. Because she created a community. She's created multiple communities. She's created some really incredible communities and the connections that I've made, not just necessarily in terms of collaborating, and the financial gain from that, although that has been also a big game changer.

But even beyond that, just the feeling like there are other people who I can talk to about the struggles that I'm going through the business owners, my fears, my insecurities, also being able to celebrate things like you know, we've had a recent launch that was really successful and to be like, I want to share this with somebody but I don't necessarily want to share this with everybody. Having a community to go to that feels safe where you can talk about I'm very transparent about your business.

And I think as women, and I'm sure you know, as a mom also, there's a lot that we're trying to juggle between being business owners and being moms and being individuals and being partners and being friends. Like there's so much and, and I do think that society still still continues to put an uneven kind of expectation on what women particularly moms are supposed to be doing. And that's something that I've struggled with a lot. And so being able to be in a community where there are other women who are in that same position, and I think for a lot like I'm one of the youngest moms in our group. And so when I see you or Alison who have children who are a little bit older, and you're running your businesses, and you're handling your lives like that, for me is very inspiring and reassuring. Because I, I remember, I was at a women's travel fest, which Kelly is the founder of and created and how I met all of you wonderful people. I was there in 2019.

And one of the speakers had us turn to the woman next to us and open up about one of our biggest one of our biggest fears, and I remember, I turned to the woman next to me, and she was probably in her mid 50s. So I kind of felt like, like, like, like, okay, she reminded me a little bit of my mom. And I was like, you know, I'm really afraid that I'm never going to be able to have a family the way I want to, and also have my career. And she was like, you can like and she was really supportive. And she was like, it's not going to be easy. But like you can do that, like, it will happen for you. And it was really less than six months later, I found out I was pregnant with my first child. And while it has not necessarily been easy, it is possible.

So even just right that like I didn't know that woman, but Kelly created a space where women come together. And we have something that's really meaningful to us that we all share in common, which is travel. And I think for most of us, we know how much travel has impacted our lives. Like, apart from it being fun and awesome. I think most of the women in that room believe that travel has given something deeper to them. And so you feel comfortable talking to other women in our community, even if you don't necessarily know them super well. So for me, those types of spaces, where I've been able to connect with other women and be very vulnerable has been incredible for me, because that's honestly necessarily something that I had a lot of, in my life before becoming a business owner, I've always usually had a little bit more of like a masculine like support crew, which is cool.

But stepping into having more of a female energy in my life has been amazing. And it's made me a better person. And it definitely has also helped me to be a better business owner. And I'm very grateful for the community that we have. Yeah,

Christine Winebrenner Irick 27:57

Thank you. I mean, I agree so much with everything that you said. And I just believe it's endlessly important. And I think it's something I wasn't aware of, I wasn't fully aware of that level of importance. Like as I entered motherhood, and there was a community around that that really shifted how I saw how women can share space together in a way that I hadn't seen as a young adult, and you know, how competitive things can be. And it seems like it really shifted to community instead of competition. And like you said, sharing a big win. Like, honestly, I remember seeing that post and I was like, yeah, like, she did it. Like that's so incredible.

And it doesn't take away anything about the work that I'm doing or, you know, my potential clients or my potential success, like, which is I think, again, how we're kind of taught to think like, it didn't cross my mind for a moment. It's just like, I knew much of your journey from sharing space together. But I also am just like, so excited to see other people's businesses grow and to see them achieve those goals, and then knowing the impact that that's going to create, because of the intention behind her travel. Like, that's also exciting, why wouldn't anyone want to celebrate that just knowing that's what we're setting out to do. And I think it's such a different dynamic. And I'm really excited to continue to explore that over the course of my conversations. And as we start to go to industry events and start to see, how does the energy shift in a space of men and women, which I haven't spent a lot of time in in the last few years.

But I just think it's really exciting. And I wanted to talk about community and how important that is. And for people who are starting businesses like that would probably be my number one tip to them and I would imagine you would echo that is fine like your community to be able to grow well with because otherwise, especially when you're sitting behind zoom behind your computer much of the time. And then if you add in chasing kids and all of the other tasks that are delegated to us as women, it will be so easy to set your dream aside. And I think having a group of women who want your dream to come true as much as you do is like the thing that will help to make it happen.

30:24

Yeah, I totally agree. And I think also, it's so important. Like, if somebody out here listening is like wanting to start a business or get into the industry, I think it's really important to find the people that you know, that inspire you. And so there was a time when for me, like, oh, man, can I even email Kelly Lewis, because like, I had her like, she was just such an inspiration to me, and she still is, but you have to sometimes push yourself outside of those comfort zones, and kind of put yourself into the rooms that you want to be in. And hopefully you're lucky enough that you find somebody like Kelly, or Stephanie, or some of the other women in that group who are willing to really graciously say, hey, like, come in, right? You're not necessarily always going to get the person extending that handout first, you might have to kind of put yourself out there.

But you know, for me, I definitely was kind of always like, hey, Kelly, like, you know, trying to know what she was, what her world was about. And now I got to be in it. And it's changed mine. And it's been so, so, so cool. And for me, like I think about the first time I ever went women's travel fast. And I literally just founded my business four months before it would go into the women's travel fests and now where I am today, and I'm so thankful, and if I had never gone to that women's travel fest, I don't know what I would be doing right now. So I think the power of community and women's rights is so epic. And I couldn't be more grateful for those opportunities.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 31:48

Yeah, I'm like, This sounds like an infomercial for Kelly. But that's what you make sure I send to her. So she knows. But I mean, it really is. It's important. And I agree, like you said, getting yourself in those rooms. And the other thing I've learned, especially through these conversations, which now is like almost 100 conversations with people who I was nervous to ask for the first time, right? And sometimes I'm like, Oh my gosh, how am I going to have this conversation with this person that I put up here for some reason. And then I have the conversation. And every time I like to kick myself, I'm like, Why did I create that like that puts them in a weird spot as well just not even me having the inability to access who they are as a mentor, or a leader or as a woman, as a human. It doesn't also allow them to be who they are fully when you create that.

32:38

And I do think that hierarchy is a kind of feeling. I do think that comes from a very traditionally kind of masculine approach to business. And so I think it's been really cool to see how like femininity is being a little bit more allowed into the business world. And I think that we're seeing that there's a lot of benefits to that. Like, I have a friend who 's a business coach, and she's very much talking about how she tries to, like, balance out her like the masculinity that we all have within ourselves, because we're all so multifaceted, right? And so like, we all have different sides to ourselves.

But how she's been trying to be really intentional about like, trying to catch like, what is coming up in her mind, because it's just like a default that's ingrained in her and like taking a minute to be like, is this actually what I want or think or feel? Because a lot of times, we are just kind of operating on what we've been how we've been trained to operate. And I think that yeah, the original system makes you feel like ooh, like, should I bother that person or, you know, all these kinds of fears. And I have found that the women travel community has been in for the stream and most part has very much been like, there's room for everybody, like come on in like it people want to hear get to know you hear about you.

And they're not necessarily saying Oh, you don't have 50,000 followers, I don't want to talk to you. So like a lot of those limiting beliefs I had, I've found out they're not true, at least not at the space that we're operating in. And so that's part of the reason why I really like it because I feel comfortable, I feel like I can reach out to somebody in the industry, and that we can have an open conversation and that there's not all of this like red tape necessarily.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 34:15

I think also when you look at that masculine and feminine, like, we don't want each other to have the same battles that we had. And if we learned a way around them, I think we're so willing to communicate that with one another. And people are excited to get the email that says, hey, I'm new in the industry, you have really been an inspiration to the vision that I have. I would really like to respect your time.

But would you be open to speaking to me about XYZ and I want this sort of outcome. And when you were really intentional with communication like that. I mean, it feels good once I receive, yeah, that that note and that someone is appreciating what you've done, but then that your expertise smells you. And I just think it's again, it's like that is not the way it has been done, like you said in the past would be like, I have done this, I have built this and you must figure out how to do it yourself. And if we can just do it together, it's going to be so much more efficient and such a much more rich experience for everyone involved. But anyway, that was a huge kind of offshoot from where we had started in the conversation. But I think it's so important, and I'm really glad that we were able to, to bring that in when you're talking about community and what it's like to, to really lean on that in your businesses.

Because, as we both said, I don't think we would be here without that community. I would love to talk to you about your path with learning Spanish, and how that also became such an important part in your personal journey, but also in the way you want to create travel. I started studying it when I was in high school. And just, you know, we had to study Spanish, but I also, there was something in me that kind of was awoken by like, seeing the world literally in a different way in a different language. And I was like, oh, oh, I get, I get something. I don't know what I will get. But there is power here. And there is a connection here. And there is a story like a whole other world lives in this language.

And I also really believe it's important and a sign of respect that when we travel that we've learned a few words and phrases of where we're going. It's just I think it shows that you care about where you are going, even if it's just please and thank you. I think it goes such a long way for creating an even exchange when we travel. But I would love to learn what initially drew you to Spanish and then what you think learning language offers travelers and people as they travel.

36:55

Amazing. Yeah, and I could not be more in agreement. I think one of the best things that you can do when you're traveling to a country where the native language is not yours. Learn like you said, Hello, good morning, please, thank you for simple things, but so that you can express that kindness and show Hey, I took at least a little bit of time to do some research to practice because I care. And because I'm here to see you as another human being right? I think that that is the least that we can do when we're going to be spending time in somebody else's home.

And I made a home in the larger sense of their country, right? So yeah, for me, Spanish has definitely completely changed my life and my life. I actually literally cannot even imagine what my life would be like if I didn't speak Spanish. It was not like the original goal. I actually studied Italian in high school, which I really enjoyed, and did pretty well. And so I knew that I liked learning languages. And when I came to Guatemala for a week, the Spanish courses were just kind of a part of the package. And I said, Yeah, of course, I'd be interested in learning Spanish. And after just a week, I was into it. Like I just love learning languages in general. It's something that I enjoy, I always enjoyed growing up. So when I started learning Spanish, I enjoyed the process of learning it. I was already starting to tell it, I really liked Guatemala. And so for me, after my first trip to Guatemala, I was there for 10 days, I went back to California. And I decided that I wanted to come and spend a longer time here. And so I came back and spent the summer and I was taking probably like six hours of Spanish class a day.

I was also trying to do independent study. And I had some friends at that point who were Guatemalan and who I was able to practice with a lot. And like I very quickly, that's something I was like, I know that Spanish is going to be a big part of my life. And the more time I spent in Guatemala, and the more time that I realized that I wanted to work in travel, because actually at the school where I was taking Spanish, there was a travel company that had their little desk there and the entrance way was run by this young Guatemalan guy. And he and I became friends. And he actually ended up giving me a job. And so that's how I got into the travel industry. And I had to learn Spanish and he was willing to pay for some of my Spanish classes.

But there was an expectation that like, you're going to be able to do these tours. And you're going to be able to talk with the drivers and talk with the restaurant staff and talk with the local guides and like you need to figure it out. And he was an awesome boss, but he was a little bit more old school, very heavy, masculine energy. It was like, this is the expectation. Do it or you don't have a job and didn't necessarily want to hear about how hard it was. He just wanted the result. So he definitely kicked my butt a little bit, which I don't know if that's not how I run my business. But personally for me, I'm kind of grateful for it. I responded well to that, like we did that dynamic work for me at that point in my life. And he really did. Ultimately he was very kind of disciplined and militant in his approach.

But at that time he whipped me into shape and he made me realize that I wanted to be able to do The job effectively, I was going to need to be able to communicate in Spanish beyond just Hola, gracias, I was going to be able to understand I had to understand nuance, I had to potentially resolve conflict. And so all of a sudden, I realized just how difficult that was going to be, and how challenging it was. But at that time I didn't have a million other responsibilities. So that became my focus. become fluent in Spanish, because becoming fluent in Spanish is, in my mind was the only way that I would be able to have meaningful long term impact in Guatemala and the rest of Latin America, I was going to have to be able to understand people, and not just the literal words, but what are they actually really trying to say. And that requires fluency. So I just studied a bunch.

And then I eventually went back to California, started to get a master's in Spanish, I found a job where I'd be utilizing Spanish most of the time at work. And I really just was like, obsessed, to be honest, like from age 1920, until about 26, like, the primary goal in my life was become a fluent Spanish speaker, and develop relationships with blue with native speakers. So that, for me was a game changer completely, it was hard, it got to a point where I was constantly the only non Latino or Latina in the room, because in my master's program, almost everybody was a native speaker of Spanish or they were first generation met, he can't or soberania, born in the United States and still grew up with Spanish at home, I was very insecure about my Spanish, I was very uncomfortable sometimes about being like, the blonde gringa in the room, like I had a lot of these insecurities and fears, which was very kind of new to me, I naturally am pretty outgoing, pretty confident person. So all of a sudden, I was experiencing, like, being shy and being a little insecure.

And I would say like 99% of everybody I encountered during those years of anxiety and fear was and they were incredibly supportive. And that was awesome. Because I would literally get to campus. And before I had to go into class, the first day of semester, I would probably cry in the bathroom and be like, Oh, my God, I'm gonna walk in there, and everyone is gonna just be like, Who's this girl who doesn't like I, it was agonizing for me, because we were not just talking about how was your day we were discussing medieval literature and what it meant for the history of women in Spain 500 years ago, and I just felt so fricking outside of my comfort zone, that it was awful. But it was the best thing I ever did. Well, one of the best things I ever did, because it pushed me into now I feel comfortable in those spaces.

Now I feel comfortable in those spaces. And I feel like I can truly do the job that I want to do. I still totally lean on my Guatemalan teammates for their insight and perspectives and kind of what they think of things when we're trying to make decisions and stuff like that. Because as fluent as I am, I still recognize that I'm still not from here. Like, there's probably still some things in certain situations where maybe, I don't know, 100% fully. So I'll check, I will ask my co workers like, I'm getting this right, right.

Because that was, but I do. I feel comfortable. Now in a space that just completely scared the daylights out of me for many years. So that was a huge, huge, huge milestone for me is getting to a point where I finally felt comfortable saying I'm fluent in Spanish, because for years, I would I'm not, I'm not fluid, because for me to say that I was a fluent created an expectation in my mind that I didn't think that I fully lived up to. And so for me to have to work through that like, honestly has been a really, really good thing, both personally and professionally. Gosh,

Christine Winebrenner Irick 43:55

I just thought of that college class. And I remember at some point actually, because I studied in college on and off and on and on and on and off because I have a little bit of a minor obsession as well. And part of me is that like you said, when you talked about understanding nuance and being able to really communicate beyond the words with the language and which is also what I wanted and probably was intimidated by as well because that's I mean, that's honestly difficult in your own native language.

Right that's that's the challenge of communication as a human anyway and then to do that in a completely different languages is something else and then to study something like that in a language that's not your native language and to like get to that point and I was trying to explain this to my daughters where you're not processing an English to Spanish course to get to the point where you just can process in Spanish or you can process in English and that's when you know you've kind of crossed to a different space. And I remember like a few times, especially after I travel to a Spanish speaking country I'll start dreaming in Spanish. And I'm like, Oh, I didn't really like fully understanding my entire dream. But if I tried to communicate to you and my conscious mind, I wouldn't be able to do that.

But I think it's just interesting to see how language shapes, you know, the way we think and feel. And I would love to tie this into travel. Why do you? Why did you want to add this to what you offer a heart of travel? Why is it so important to you?

45:25

Yeah, so I think that was at the heart of travel, we've always had a couple of missions to kind of simultaneous missions. On the front end, we want to make sure that the people who are traveling with us apart from being safe and having fun, we want to make sure that they are learning something, and that we are hoping, hopefully opening up their mind, and giving them the opportunity to really think about their perspectives, and maybe even shift some of their their paradigms, I would say, in general, most of the people who come on our travel trip are already open minded, and want to learn about culture and want to be responsible travelers.

But I do think like, there are a lot of myths and misconceptions and preconceived notions out there about a lot of the countries that we work in, especially Guatemala is one of the countries where people are the most concerned about is it going to be safe is it going to be my gonna, you know, there's a little bit of a fear that comes from years and years of a betrayal of these countries, in our textbooks or in our media. So one of our biggest things is we want to be able to shift people's perspectives by giving them the opportunity to actually meet and interact with people from these countries. So that we can hopefully, change the way that they might vote when they go back home and the way they might speak about a country like Guatemala, or maybe it's gonna, in fact, impact their interactions with certain people. So we want travel to be an opportunity for them to open up their minds and reevaluate some of the things that they're potentially doing in their lives.

And on the other end, we want to make sure that our business is creating, like we said, all these opportunities for employment or for small business growth for our providers. And so for me, in order to do that, and become kind of a bridge, I was going to have to be able to speak both languages very, very fluently, and be able to create an environment of trust, where most people could interact directly with one another. But obviously, not everybody who comes on our tours is a fluent Spanish speaker, but we do have a large community of people who are interested in continuous travel to Latin America, right? So you know, if you're just gonna go to Costa Rica, once on a family vacation, awesome, in which case, Hola, Dios portfolio, or gracias is, is probably enough. But we have this community of people who are very much interested in traveling to Latin America, multiple times a year or for extended stays, where they really are interested in getting more integrated into the community, and having a long, ongoing relationship.

So maybe they only come to Guatemala once a year. But they want to come once a year for the next 10 years of their lives, right, because they have created that in that connection. And so those types of people usually are naturally interested in learning Spanish. And so one of the things that I have come across is that a lot of the programs to learn Spanish either in high school or college in the United States, or even a lot of the things like you know, Duolingo, which actually was created by Guatemalan, or Rosetta Stone, or these types of things, a lot of times the Spanish is a little bit overly like academically perfect, and also puts a lot of emphasis on like the Spain, the Spanish that spoken and either Spain or Mexico. And there's a lot of things that are left out that so I feel like a lot of the curriculums to learn Spanish that you can find in the US don't reflect the reality of how people actually speak in a lot of parts of Latin America, I think people have this idea that it's homogenous, and it's not like Guatemalans and Cubans.

It's like they're speaking different languages at times. And so we created a program where we talk a lot about that. And we talked about how it's really important to understand that Spanish is different in different places, both the actual literal world words as well as the cultural context. And so we created a program so that people can take Spanish classes online with us through like these pre-recorded videos where you're getting to hear the stories and learn and meet different native speakers. And then we also have our Spanish Immersion trips where you can travel with us.

But in addition to our travel activities, you can have classroom time. And again, all that is designed for people who have an intention, incorporating travel to Latin America more regularly into their lives, and giving them the Spanish and also the kind of cultural knowledge that we think would be important in order for them to have a better and easier experience for them and where they're also simultaneously engaging in a more culturally appropriate and respectful way with people so that they can start to develop the types of relationships that I've been really fortunate to develop over the last 13 years. So That is what we're looking to do by giving people the opportunity to incorporate Spanish learning into their travel or their online studies with

Christine Winebrenner Irick 50:06

us. Thank you. Yeah, I think it really just shifts how we have what our experience is. So I think it's really important and I love the trips that you've created. So I hope people will visit your website and see all the different ways that they can get involved with that. But um, two more things that I want to get to before we wrap up. One is the work that you do highlighting artisans and women in Guatemala. That's something that's really important to me. That's what I found in my Lotus sojourns trip upon was the interaction and creating space for connection with women in Guatemala. And those interactions are so powerful, I can't really even put them into words. There are beautiful, powerful equal exchanges and connections that are highly necessary. But I would love to hear about the work that you do with Casa floor and why you brought that into the fold as well.

51:07

Awesome. The simple answer really is the work that we do with Casa Florida is we simply introduce people to Casa Florida so that Casa Fleur can then talk to them about what they do and how awesome they are. And that's really it. We literally are just saying, We're the bridge, right? I mean, and the reason I say this is because what I want to highlight is that Casa Florida is amazing and awesome. Without us, they are epic. We have been very, very lucky that we've known a lot of the women across the floor for gosh, it's probably been at least seven years now.

And so I do feel like when we are visiting Casa Florida with our travelers that travelers do get to have a bit more of an intimate experience. Because of that relationship that I personally have with them fina who is kind of one of the like the faces for CASA flora, anybody who has been the Casa flourish Koco, you've probably met Delphina. She's just an incredible inspiration for a woman. So what we love about Casa Florida is that Casa flora is a textile cooperative in Santa Ana Laguna. It was founded by a woman named Teresa who unfortunately, passed away last year, and her legacy on her community is beyond inspiring, especially when you think about all of the additional hoops and adversities that she had to jump through as a Guatemalan woman, in the time that she founded this back in 1996. So basically, Class A floater is a textile cooperative in San Juan Laguna, where they are improving the quality of women's life and the opportunity for them to have a more stable income.

But they're doing it on their own terms. So this cooperative is completely led by women from that community. There isn't anybody from another part of Guatemala or from another part of the world that is telling them what to do. These women have come together and found a method and a model that works for them. And one of the things that's really cool about class of Florida, is that because of the business savvy because of the fact that they were willing to take risks, and take out a small business loan that was hard to get as a woman in a more rural part of Guatemala, over 20 years ago, they did those things, because they believed in themselves. And because they were not going to fall into the narrative that they were just there to produce and sell to a middleman and take what they could get and be happy with it. No, they were like, we want to have more control. We want to have to get more value for the talent that we know that we have. Therefore, we're going to come together and figure out a way to make that work.

And now class of Florida is one of the few types of cooperatives where a woman comes in and says, Okay, I made the scarf, she's gonna get paid right away. A lot of the other cooperatives work on consignment. And so for some people are like, well, like that made me make sense. But having the ability to say I'm gonna come in and bring in five stars this week, and I'm gonna get paid X amount of money. And that's the ability of knowing that you're gonna have a certain income, that ability to say, hey, you know what, this week I decided, you look good on my demo sodas. I'm gonna work. I'm gonna make seven stars this week because my daughter's can Zenyatta is coming up. And I want to be able to save up for that and knowing that you have salt, like a place where you can take your ancestry, your skills, your knowledge, your heritage and get paid for it properly. It sounds simple, but it's pretty big. And it definitely has allowed women in this community to have certain stability and provide things for their children that they didn't necessarily have growing up.

So like Delphinus' daughter is taking piano classes and she's on the basketball team and she's able to do all these additional things that her mom didn't necessarily get to do. And her but her mom is calling the shots and making it happen alongside other Women, it's awesome. And so I think that the work that they've done is just an incredible example of an empowered collective of women who have not historically necessarily been given the same tools and resources, and who are figuring things out and saying we deserve to have the space. And we deserve to be able to do this on our own. And we have value and we know it. And they were able to make it, they were able to grow it to success.

That's amazing. And so what we mostly do is when people come with us, we say, Hey, let's go hear this incredible story. In terms of what has maybe been like some of our other deeper impacts, we have created some more unique experiences with then where we can do like, homestay and stay overnight with the families where where we can have lunch at somebody's home, we've worked with Delfina and other women at Casa Florida to talk about, what are some things that we can do that will make the experience more enriching for the tourists and also create an a side income for the woman who host us. So not a lot of the other travel companies are doing that.

So that would maybe kind of be like, Well, what is her travel been able to bring to Casa Florida, Chicago, but I definitely would say that in general the cost of Florida has brought a lot more to us. Because it is one of the highlights of a lot of people's trips with us. They say meetings and final meetings that I said before she passed away meeting Johanna you want and all these women like that was such a powerful moment for them because they share their work. And when you see the work that goes into the talent and the time that goes into what they create, your appreciation for their talent, for their hard work, for their dedication, for everything that you do. It just multiplies exponentially. And it I don't know, almost anybody who's ever gone across a fluid, learned about what they've done, and then said, I don't really think that I want to buy something to support these women like that doesn't happen, people are blown away, and genuinely excited about what they're creating and excited to support them.

And the last little part of this, because I know we're running out of time, is one of the things that sets us aside is that we do not see commissions. So in the travel industry, it's very common for a tour guide, where to take somebody to a place across the floor, that they would get a commission from sales. And I don't necessarily judge that harshly because I do know a lot of times like the individual guide, like he might not be getting an incredible pay, right. And so this is culturally not an unusual thing to happen. We've decided that with our business model, we don't need to do that. And so we would rather not because we don't want to take away from Casa fleurs earnings, and we also don't ever want our travelers to feel like we're wanting them to buy something because we're getting a benefit out of it, we want you to buy it, because you want it and because you want to support those people. So we do not take commissions. I have, like I said, great feelings about other people who do. I don't want to say that that's necessarily bad if it's an individual Guatemalan guide, who has that relationship with a cooperative like that. But for us as a larger business, we don't take commissions from our artisans ever.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 58:02

I love that. And thanks for sharing that as well. And I love that you were like we just opened the door and they do the rest, which I think is the like that underlying unexplainable magic, because this witnessing of this passion for their community and culture and the way this allows communities to preserve the art that they do, and create a true value for it for many arts that are being lost around the world. I mean, this is something that I've seen in so many countries, so incredible to be able to spend a moment in that space. And the other thing that I've done is had a moment where the artisans we meet with like Teach us how to embroider or something like that.

And the first time I did it, they're like, Oh, we're going to do this project on this project. While you're here for two hours, like four hours later, we've done like this much of the project and very poorly. And there was something so valuable about that as well in these women. Seeing how truly difficult something that is such a normal part of their life might be like, it's very difficult. And it also allows us as someone who is going to, you know, maybe purchase these products to really understand what goes into creating, because when you see shelves of scarves, something in our brain says like that must be easy, because there's a shelf of them. We don't know the process of, you know, harvesting the roots and all the things to make the dyes and then making the yarn and it's such an extensive and beautiful process. Like I think everyone should be required to connect with artisans when they travel.

But it's just so amazing. So thank you so much for sharing that part of why that's so important. So I have two other things. I have one kind of more elaborate question and then my rapid fire questions that we can go through. In my book soldiers. And this year, we have been reading the awakened woman by Dr. Terror i trends, I don't know if you're familiar with her, but she has a concept of your great hunger. And this is the thing that lights you up. And is like the thing that you really feel you're meant to do, and the change you're meant to create. And it's the thing that, like, doesn't let you sleep when you know you're not doing it. And I feel like so many of the women I know have this expressed through their work and travel. And so my question is, like, at the end of the day, what is this? What is the change that you are trying to create in the world through your work and travel?

1:00:50

I want people to be, I want people to connect. And I want people to realize that even if we don't think that we are ignorant, even if we don't think that we might have certain prejudice, like even if we think that we are unaffected by the context of society, unfortunately, we are, we instead of beating ourselves up about AI, which I feel like has been happening a lot in the world, I cannot change every single thing about the world, or the way that the world is or even my own place in the world, because there are certain things that are externally beyond my control.

But I can try my hardest to listen to other people and meet other people and be open to their experiences and to accept that I might never fully understand, or that I might not, I might not even fully agree with the person that at some point, because I might because I just simply can't understand their situation. And that that doesn't mean that we can't still interact in a respectful way, and gain something from our interaction. I think that we've become so like, This is who I am, this is my community. And anything outside of that scares me. And I'm kind of unsure of it. And travel really challenges that type of mindset. And so that's why I think it's important to travel. If nothing else, I think that travel can have incredible impacts on communities and this and this and this and that. But also at the individual level, I think travel can make you question certain things about yourself, that ultimately will lead you to be a better, more empathetic, compassionate and conscious person.

And I think that that's what our world really means. Because I don't know how to topple the economic monopolies that massive corporations have on things I wish that I did, but I don't. But I can definitely control how I treat people, I can definitely control how I decide to purchase and spend my own personal money, right?

And so I think travel has just opened me up to trying my best, but still being loving and kind to myself and the people around me to make more intentional decisions with everything that I do in my life. So that's what I want. I want people to have those opportunities, to have time to think because we're so busy. And when we're in our routine, it's just so easy to not stop and question it. But when we're thrown out of it, it gives us there's something about travel that allows us to be a little bit more introspective, and, and maybe reshape some of the things that we think or do and I think that that's really important.

Christine Winebrenner Irick 1:03:43

That was amazing. I'm just like sitting here cheering like,