Episode 70- Sophia Hyder Hock, Destinations International
When we travel to different places, we encounter places and people who are different from us. To come to terms with these differences, we turn to mindfulness; this can help us get comfortable in uncomfortable situations.
Ever wonder how travel can correlate with mindfulness? Is there a link between travel and the development of emotional intelligence? When we travel, mindful practice strengthens our skill to make decisions with emotional intelligence, not emotional reaction.
With increased experience we broaden our worldview and develop more empathy towards others. Over time we become more flexible within our own perspective and can manage a greater level of compassion, patience and self-acceptance.
Travel also broadens our worldview by exposing us to different cultures, worldviews and perspectives. When we encounter these experiences we must be able to move beyond ourselves in order to understand and learn about others, which can be challenging for many people as it requires us to make a conscious effort to open up to learn from experiences outside of our comfort zone.
Christine’s guest is an explorer, optimist, policy-nerd and all around great person.
Sophia Hyder Hock is the Chief Diversity Officer for Destinations International. In this role, Sophia will provide leadership, coordination and strategic direction for the design and implementation of an overall strategy within the association, across member organizations and the broader tourism industry.
Prior to joining Destinations International, Sophia was the Founder and CEO of Papilia, an organization dedicated to developing tailored equity, diversity and inclusion strategies for the travel industry to attract new audiences while respecting cultural heritage and diverse perspectives.
Sophia is on the Board of the Center for Responsible Tourism (CREST), and has written for numerous travel publications about diverse representation, family travel, and wellness.
Her love for travel started at the age of 10 when she moved from California to Sri Lanka. Since then, Sophia has been to 40+ countries and plans to inspire her toddler to be a citizen of the world through mindful travel and learning about his Bengali-American heritage.
You’ll soon understand my deep appreciation of my connection with Sophia as we explore topics like how to be more mindful when we travel and in our daily practices, how we can be more intentional and connect in a more meaningful way when we travel, and how dei and sustainability intersect in the space of travel.
This conversation winds its way through so many things that she and I are deeply passionate about. I know you'll walk away feeling inspired and hopefully with a few new strategies to be more mindful in travel and in life.
Join me now for my fun and soulful conversation with Sophia Hyder Hock.
In this episode, Christine and Sophia discuss:
How her love for travel started at the age of 10 when she moved from California to Sri Lanka and how this experience shaped her as a child
How to be more mindful when we travel and in our daily practices
How we can be more intentional and connect in a more meaningful way when we travel
How diversity, equity, inclusion and sustainability intersect in the space of travel
Why it's important to understand the different forms of travel and why people travel
Finding your purpose when you travel
Resources & Links Mentioned in the Episode
To learn more about Sophia Hyder Hock and her work, visit https://destinationsinternational.org/equity-diversity-inclusion
Follow her on your favorite social platform: Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn
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Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of the people making a positive impact in tourism. In each episode, you’ll hear the story of women who are industry professionals and seasoned travelers and community leaders who know travel is more than a vacation. It is an opportunity for personal awareness and it is a vehicle for change. We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart-centered change makers.
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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor.) Sophia Hyder Hock (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing and production by Rayna Booth.
Transcript
KEYWORDS
travel, people, conversation, life, create, community, inspired, connect, space, experience, dei, explore,
Christine Winebrenner Irick 00:08
Thank you for joining me for soulful conversations with my community of fellow travelers, exploring the heart, the mind and the globe. These conversations highlight what travel really means for the world. Soul of Travel honors the passion and dedication of the people making a positive impact in tourism. Each week, I'll be speaking to women who are tourism professionals, world travelers and leaders in their communities will explore how travel has changed them and how that has rippled out and inspired them to change the world. These conversations are as much about travel as they are about passion, and living life with purpose, chasing dreams, building businesses, and having the desire to make the world a better place. This is a community of people who no travel is more than a vacation. It is an opportunity for personal awareness, and it is a vehicle for change. We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart centered changemakers I'm Christine Winebrenner Irick. And this is the Soul of Travel.
Sophia Hyder Hock is the Chief Diversity Officer for Destinations International. Prior to joining destinations International, Sophia was the founder and CEO of Papilla, an organization dedicated to developing tailored Equity, Diversity and Inclusion strategies for the travel industry to attract new audiences while respecting cultural heritage and diverse perspectives.
Sophia is also on the board of the Center for Responsible Tourism, also known as CREST and has written for numerous travel publications about diverse representation, Family Travel and Wellness. Her love for travel started at the age of 10 when she moved from California to Sri Lanka. Since then, Sophia has been to over 40 countries and plans to inspire her toddler to be a citizen of the world through mindful travel, and learning about his Bengali American heritage.
You'll soon understand my deep appreciation of my connection with Sophia as we explore topics like how to be more mindful when we travel and in our daily practices, how we can be more intentional and connect in a more meaningful way when we travel, and how DEI and sustainability intersect in the space of travel.
This conversation winds its way through so many things that she and I are deeply passionate about. I know you'll walk away feeling inspired and hopefully with a few new strategies to be more mindful in travel and in life.
Join me now for my soulful conversation with Sophia Hyder Hock.
Welcome to Soul of Travel, I am so beyond excited to be sitting down with Sophia Hyder Hock today to talk about mindfulness and travel and talk about diversity, equity, inclusion, and just kind of making travel a richer place in general. So thank you so much, Sophia, for being here today.
03:38
I'm really excited, Christine, it's been a long time coming. So I know we have a lot to talk about.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 03:44
Yeah, thank you so much. As my listeners know, I often am big fans of the humans that I get to connect with on this program. And you're definitely one of those. So I'm so excited to share this space. And I'm thankful for the way that the universe keeps bringing just these amazing people for me to speak to and so just full of gratitude for this space today. As we begin the conversation, I'd love to give you a moment to introduce yourself and talk a little bit about who you are in the space of travel right now and what that looks like.
04:19
That's a great, great moment for me to introduce a lot of things I suppose. So everyone, I'm so excited again to be on your podcast, Christine. So my name is Sophia Hyder Hock, and I am the Chief Diversity Officer for Destinations International. Previous to this, I owned my own business called Papilia. And I was designing, facilitating and creating dei diversity, equity inclusion strategies, training and workshops, coaching services specifically for the travel industry. I have to say I'm also a yoga instructor. It's really important to me. And so what's really important to me is to always include mindfulness and wellness principles into every project that I have.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 05:04
Thank you for including that because I think that is so important in just how I have seen you show up in travel is that there's always just this extra component that I feel like really brings in this connection and love and respect of humanity and of self. And I think it just makes it so much more valuable to add that and I also became a yoga instructor I have, I don't instruct often. But I went through the process. And it was really for me more about understanding all of the pieces beyond like the physical practice of yoga, but very much that mental and spiritual practice and that deep connection that it allows you to see and feel. And so I think that's really important, especially in this place in travel and in this place in time in the history of travel, I think to have that background as well.
06:08
Absolutely. It's taking me through in professional and personal life, to be quite honest.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 06:13
Yeah, I mean, it is, it's, it's just something, and I don't for those of you listening, who maybe haven't had that experience, I just cannot speak highly enough of exploring, like the yoga way of living, in terms of just being able to just wrap your mind around so many things. And like you said, to get through what we've been facing in the last, you know, two and a half, three years, I actually started my yoga training, like right in the pandemic, and did virtual yoga, which I thought would be insane. But I go back to that practice constantly to just like, find myself realize, like, it's going to be okay, and so yeah, I love that that is a commonality that we have, I would like to give you time to just to get a little bit more of an understanding of who you are to share with us a little bit about how travel became a part of your life, which was really as a young child, and kind of having that understanding of being a global citizen. And so I'd love for you, Sophia to just share with us. And let us get to know you a little bit more.
07:25
Oh, thanks. Thanks for the speech, Christine. So I will take it back to when I was a kid. I am first generation Bengali and American, Bengali and Indian. And I was born in Indiana. So that's, you know, a whole other story in itself. But I'm the youngest of six, three boys and three girls. And I, when I was a kid, we moved around quite a bit Indiana to Idaho, to California is where we put down some roots. We then moved, if we're talking, from California to the east coast. But in that time between a West Coast and East Coast move. When I was 10, we moved to Sri Lanka, 10 to 12. And those were the most formative years, I have to say, of my life, in many ways. I remember them so clearly, because you know, moving from California to Sri Lanka is a big move from every standpoint, culturally, lifestyle, and it's something that you can't really prepare your kids for, you can just experience it.
So when I was there, you know, the Civil War was still happening. And there were times when I couldn't go to school because of their their suicide bombings that were taking place for security reasons. So I used to go to work with my dad, and my dad used to do international development work. And I would just sit in his meetings, and I was grateful that I was allowed to do that, you know, at such a young age, but I just observed his mannerisms and, and the interactions that he would have. And I was just fascinated by them. And when we came back to the United States back to California, it was this, you know, kind of this reverse culture shock I had, I didn't really know how to integrate back into a lifestyle that I was used to, that I grew up in. And I wasn't sure how to reconcile, you know what I experienced, and I took that with me. We moved to the East Coast and moved to Washington DC. And as you know, my first internship was working on Capitol Hill. And then after that I wanted to explore international development work, because I found myself inspired by it and I did that for 15 or so plus years. I was working in a variety of different sectors. Economic development, conflict mitigation, gender empowerment, working on agricultural land farming rights.
And it's something that always stays with me. Because I remember both of my parents used to say this, they said, they told me, Sophia, you know, what's really important is that you listen, you're a humble listener, and you listen to people. And the second is that, don't ever think that you are better than someone. And so you treat everyone equally. And it's, especially in international development, it's really important because you can come, you can go to a place and think that you're somehow better than someone, and you know what they need, but you don't know what they need. And so that has taken me through to the work that I continue to do today segwayed, into travel about into 2015, because I wanted to create more impact. And my work in diversity, equity inclusion, have continued, but it was sparked by an app that I pitched an idea for when I lived in the Raleigh Durham area, I was going to Argentina for a friend of mine's wedding. And I was looking for an app that could provide me with cultural etiquette advice, how to pack in an efficient way, but also culturally appropriate and shopping advice. There wasn't an app for it. So I pitched the idea and ended up winning the crowd favorite. And I had people business and leisure travelers that came up to me and were like, you know, I could really use something like this. Because when I travel to places, I feel like sometimes I either feel uncomfortable, or communication is lost, and I want to feel comfortable.
11:39
And I had my positive reflection moment. And I thought , do I want to create it out or do I want to create something that is truly sustainable, that can truly create impact. And I, you know, thought about all the things that I love that I'm interested in. And I thought you know, I love people. I love design and facilitation. I love policy. That's my background. And I then thought, you know, based on experiences that I've had traveling, I really wanted to explore the travel industry. Because I saw it, I thought it was fascinating that in the space of travel, the hospitality industry was meant to be hospitable. But we're not because we're humans, and how we can foster greater connections with people in a really genuine way. So that is how you know, my puppet, that's how quickly emerged. And then this recent new role that I've taken on is a perfect alignment with the work that I have been doing. And this position, you know, came to my attention, and I didn't feel like I was losing out on anything because it perfectly aligned with my work, I could just create a greater impact. And that's what it's always been about, for me being able to sustain a passionate impact.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 13:12
Thank you so much for sharing that. There's just so many points in your story that I'm just like, it just makes so much sense that this is, who you are and how you express yourself in your career. And like I just I kept imagining you moving to Idaho, and what that experience must have been like, and then you know, to California and then like you said, going to Sri Lanka and it's just I just kind of envisioned this young Sophia like, be like, hey, what about you know me in this space? And then like that became like, hey, what about all of us in this space. And so I just love that so much like I can just see the ignited and, and I think like you said to mention, you know, having this app and having like starting to see success and momentum. And then having this moment of pause. I feel like that is a huge thing to draw attention to. Because I think a lot of times in our career, especially as entrepreneurs, or you know, just when you transition from one space to another, like you have these opportunities and to be able to sit with some clarity and reflect and say hey, like, this is almost it. But this isn't quite it and to have the ability to widen that out and say this is what I really want out of my experience, and out of my career and then to like slightly redirect. I feel like that's so powerful. And I love that you were able to do that. And I'm hoping that that gives a little glimpse of what that could be like for people that are listening because I think that's hard to do. And I don't know if you want to share anything more about that process, but I think that's really valuable.
14:57
It was hard. It was really hard Christine so I always reflect honestly, on my journey from even doing international development work to segwaying into an industry that I wasn't even familiar with. But I knew I could draw upon my skill sets too. And it wasn't easy because diversity, equity inclusion work wasn't a really well known phrase, or it wasn't something that was known in this industry. And it has been an uphill battle for me to help people in the industry understand why it's important, why connection is important, and how it matters for the industry. And so I feel like I've always been, you know, really creating, trying to create dialogue, and trying to connect with people and to recognize that this could be a new topic, and that's okay. So it's really interesting, because it has been that uphill battle, but I just, it was always something in me, that was like, you know, you continue to do this, there is purpose, there is a reason for it, just keep being who you are. And keep listening. Don't judge right, yoga is a part of that.
Try not to judge, and really just be yourself. And that has been, you know, through thick and thin, that has been the message that I keep telling myself, as I progressed, in my journey being an entrepreneur is hard. You know that. And so it's, it's been, it's been difficult. I've also had, you know, some really major milestones to remind me of how precious life is and how important it is, you know, I've, I've been in two really bad car accidents, where I almost thought I was gonna die. I had an 18 Wheeler come at me, and I survived. And that's not to be taken lightly. Another pretty epic car accident, and I'm a good driver. But they weren't my fault. I've got to say that. But um, you know, those, those moments, really help you check in and evaluate your life, am I doing what I need to be doing? Both my parents had passed, and they were gonna cry, but they were everything to me, I really was really close to them. And I take that message, that they've given me all their messages with me. So just to think about the sacrifices they made not being from this country, to give me and my siblings the education and the ability to be who I am today. I don't take that lightly. Yeah.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 17:39
I wish we were not virtual right now. How much love but I really, what I love most about you sharing that, and thank you for doing so is that having had the pleasure of being in your presence, when you're leading circles or leading meditations or a workshop, like, you can feel that when you are creating space. And so I think that's so important. And so I really appreciate that you shared that with us. And the other thing that I was thinking about when you were speaking is, you know, it's hard when things are continuous, an uphill battle to keep pushing, and it's you just like, What have I just stepped over there, that looks way better. And like, sometimes it would be way easier. But I think one of the things that I've seen through these conversations is that when the women I've been speaking to find that purpose, like you mentioned, and they stay connected to it, the way they create in the world has so much more impact. It's just more powerful. It's coming from, like this place of self. And it's not coming from a checklist or like the thing I know I can do is the thing that feels easier that maybe you don't love that that deep like soul connection comes out, and then whoever you're sending your work to receives that. And this is definitely coming back to this yoga mindset.
But it just feels better to work with someone who believes that much about the work they're doing. Whether that work is, you know, dentistry or being an attorney or being a baker, or the work that you're doing when someone just deeply loves what they're doing. You feel it. And so I always hope that people listen, if they have that feeling, or if they are maybe in that moment of the uphill battle and listening to just know that it's worth it and not just for you, but I feel like that ripple is immeasurable. When you stay in alignment with the thing that you're supposed to be doing that fills you up.
19:54
I completely agree with you and I would add one thing that has also been Something that I made sure, it must have happened over the pandemic, even before that I would not compare myself to someone else. And that's the other piece is, you know, feeling like someone else is doing something better than you are or that the grass is always greener, you never know what's going on with somebody else. So never assume. But I always, you know, I made that point to say, I'm not going to compare myself to someone because I'm not them. I'm going to do what I think is best for me. And if someone else is doing something that's like what I'm doing, I'm going to just send them gratitude, I'd say great job and not think ill will of them. Because you know why. And that genuineness. Honestly, it has made sure that I connect in a clearer way with people. And it helps me be in that present moment. So that's another thing that I'd like to add on to what you've said.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 21:05
Hi, it's Christine, interrupting this episode,
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Yeah, and I think that is both that and coming from a space of non judgment and non comparison in the work that you're doing, specifically is so powerful, because you're going to be guiding people through conversations where they need both of those tools in order to be successful. And I think all the time too, without comparing myself to others. You know, when I started this podcast, I'm like what, you know, originally, I'm like, Who am I to do this? I don't even know what a podcast is, I've only ever listened to a few. I just knew that I wanted to talk to people. And that seemed like a place where people did it, right. And then I would love to be like, Oh my gosh, they have like 9 million followers and 5 million downloads, I can't do this. And then I was like, You know what, I'm really actually not doing it for that. So just quit worrying about those things that are irrelevant. But that's, you know, that's what our human brain wants to like, figure out how we can compare ourselves to others, and then just keep going.
And it's like, every once in a while I will look and I'm like, you know, because as an entrepreneur, you also have set goals, right? So there's this balance of like, setting a goal. And then like your ego gets a little attached to that goal. And then you're back to like, put it doesn't matter. And it's a very tricky line. I have spent a lot of time in that space over the last year for sure. But I do know, like you said, because I just keep creating from this space of love and for it being about my guests and whoever hears their story and how that impacts them and shifts what they do in the world. And how that impacts the next person that they can come into connection with like, for me, that's what it's about. So I'm like, okay, just come back to That's what matters, and then move forward. But it can definitely be hard as an entrepreneur to stay operating from that space because we need to make money, we need to meet goals, we need to have transparent statements of how we're doing XYZ and that feels very counterintuitive to this process. I don't know if you've definitely landed in that space but
24:32
well and you also have to know who your competition is right? And so that's the other piece of that in that mental space that we can get into and you know, as you were talking guess this is the the DEI brain I have, but there's the bias that comes up of that there that's unconscious. You know, the competitors and you know, really you're sizing people up because that's how our brains operate. We operate out of fear And that is one thing, you know, I try to always do, as I say, you talk about unconscious biases, really bring attention to the fact that I'm human, I will have them. But how can I make sure that I make these biases aware? And that's just a constant? A constant reminder when it comes to really setting pure intention?
Christine Winebrenner Irick 25:26
Yeah. And I think the other thing about that is that it's so uncomfortable. So you recognize this bias, and you're like, now what do I do with it, most of us are like, you know, like, I don't really want to look that in the eye. And I think, again, we've seen a lot of growth in the past two years of people being like, Okay, it's time to, like, we got it, we've got to do this, it has to be uncomfortable, it's time to look at these things, have these conversations and understand that we're all a part of this. And there's not a way out without going through it. And it's been definitely, I think, challenging, but also so amazing to see the growth, and the conversations that have come out of this space. So I guess it would be a really good time to step more fully into the work that you're doing, and what the intersection between the EI and travel and sustainable travel and kind of how do all of these pieces come together to make travel a better space for both travelers, but also for the destinations that we interact with? And how does that unfold? How do you see those things connected?
26:39
All Connected? That is a loaded question is
Christine Winebrenner Irick 26:41
part two will be
26:46
that we'll have to unpack. So I know that, you know, travel can be a lot of things. And sometimes, and I want to address that too, because you know, we talk about travel being a way to explore and learn about other cultures, which is very true. I also want to acknowledge that there is, if we're thinking about it through the lens global the E i lens, there's, there's obviously business travel, there's also travel that has to take place. That's like migratory patterns, there are people that don't have access to water that have to travel to, you know, get water and basic needs. So there are so many different forms of travel. And I think that it's really important first to understand that sometimes people have to travel out of necessity. And it's not just leisure. So if you're going to a place where it's a necessity, that's a part of empathy to and understanding that there. There's privilege, of course, but there are different means of travel. I think the other part that really just, you know comes comes up in my mind is that the thought that when you're traveling, it has to be this big to do if you have to go internationally, or you have to get on a plane, but travel can be going to the county next door to you. And exploring that it can feel it can be accessible. It doesn't have to be that costly. But the intentions are really important. And so I wanted to make sure that that lens, I brought that lens to just my own attention. Sometimes it's good to just say it out loud. Thank you.
I think sustainable travel. You know, sustainability means so many things to so many people that definition but to me sustainable travel is really thinking about short and long term outcomes of community. What do we want? You know, in from a community standpoint, what do we want community to look and feel like now and for kids, if we choose to have kids and for the future, that is sustainable Trump really thinking about longevity and cultivating, you know, cleaner air and a greater Earth and thinking about waste thinking about people and the value of cultures within a community? How do we sustain those voices and those cultures and that representation? So sustainability to me, is that within the community, really thinking about community growth, and a community centric approach? And then it's also, you know, if visitors are coming into a place it is being able to in this ideal world, you know, for dei being able to understand that there are different people with different backgrounds, abilities, perspectives that are coming to a place and they're learning They want to learn hopefully about your community. So how do you connect? How do you understand that? There will be differences? But how can you find connections of purpose and understanding how different people live and operate? How are you welcome? How do you create that welcoming space? That to me, that's sustainability, like sustainable travel? What does a welcoming environment look and feel like? How can we cultivate that for ourselves? And then for visitors to?
Christine Winebrenner Irick 30:31
Yeah, oh, my goodness, I'm already wishing that, like you said, we had so much more time just to like go through the nuances of all of this, because just starting with how you're defining travel is huge. Because, you know, I jump into every conversation with how I define travel, right, and how I travel personally. And I often forget that there's this type of travel or this type of travel, because it's not in my loop. That's how I travel. And it's not who I'm usually connecting to. And so I'd love just starting there being like, what, what is travel, travel is all these things. And then if you're going to be addressing how travel is, is operating more sustainably, and you're looking at it through all of these places, because you can't just address sustainability and adventure travel or educational travel or mindful travel because we're leaving, like a huge portion of how and why people travel out of the conversation. And I think for those of us who are in that pocket like I am, that is our wish, like we want to move into all of these other spaces of conversation in travel.
But I think the awareness that we're thinking about it only from what we know about it is huge. And I think that goes much like you're saying when you travel somewhere, and you sit down in community with someone, you're sitting down with them with your lens and your experiences, and which is fair, like we can't expect people not to have that. But then how do you connect more deeply? How do you bring that awareness? Like you said, how do you start to create those deeper connections? And I think part of why I think travel is so magical is because I think it does invite invites that more naturally, then if you are you know commuting on the subway or something like you might happen to have a meaningful conversation with someone but you're tending to be more superficial and you're not as open. But when you're sitting with someone in their home and or in their space in a place you're not familiar with, I feel like we're braver to ask some of those questions or the way that someone wants to share themselves with us as someone who is an outsider to them. Like it just kind of creates more space for that. If people want to engage and connect more fully and in a way that you think brings more richness to that experience. What does that look like for you? Or how would you encourage them to connect?
33:07
That's a great question. Um, I think, you know, as you're speaking, I was really listening to what you're saying. And I was thinking about the experiences of travel that I've had, and that one, that it's not humanly possible for us to know everything about everyone, right, or every perspective is just not what we experience. And I remember, you know, for me, traveling in my 20s solo for work is very different from my lens. Now, as you know, as a mom, who also thinks that's a very different lens and traveling with a kid is very different than traveling solo. And so I would say, for this place in my life, and this could apply to anyone really thinking about their trout travel journey so far, and the different lenses that and perspectives they've had throughout their lives, whether you're 16, whether you're 25, you know, you've had it, whether you're 4060, whatever that is, you've had different aspects and milestones in your life, that affect your perspective, and how you travel. And so, I use this framework, I've done this before, and some workshops that I've held are called people place on purpose, and it is first reflecting upon yourself, reflecting upon those people that are important in your life.
Just thinking about that connection, those connections that are really rich, maybe those that may have fallen off and you know, just reflecting upon that again, without that judgment, places, places that are most important to you. You know, home base, could be memories, it can be whatever that is for you. And then purpose, purpose, your purpose in life. It doesn't have to be so grandiose. It could be, I don't know what it is yet. What is my purpose? You know, it could be questioning that, and reflecting on those things for you. And when you travel to a place, being curious and asking open ended questions of curiosity, keeping context, of course, in in place, but you know, getting to know people through, you know, what, people through understanding their perspectives on who they like to surround themselves with, what inspires them, what places inspire them, what gives them what makes them smile throughout their day. That's a little aspect of purpose, right? So being creative about first understanding who you are, and then trying to connect and learn about different people by asking them questions that you can connect with. Because they're, they're meaningful. And they go, they transcend, you know, they can transcend a background because you're learning about someone else's perspective. And I have created such genuine connections with people around the world, because I genuinely want to respect them, but I want to understand and connect with them.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 36:13
I mean, I think that takes practice, right? Again, going back to the subway conversation, I think a lot of us are really used to surface level quick conversations like kind of non connecting, connecting, like we just kind of have these passings so practicing. And then and you know, maybe not practicing with the person on the subway with your family or, you know, colleagues or, and getting used to asking those questions and receiving the answers. Because sometimes we're just as uncomfortable with receiving someone's story as we are like sharing our own, I feel like there's something about how much we protect ourselves in that way. But then all of a sudden, I feel like once you have that, like muscle developed, you can have these really meaningful conversations.
And I was just in Belize and I, I was noticing those conversations happening in a way that they hadn't happened before. But like people telling me about, like, what their childhood was like, and what they wish for their children and what they've achieved and what they're proud of. And I'm like, we're just sitting here, I don't know, you. And I'm having this incredible conversation, and learning so much about them and their culture and what it would be like to live there. And all of a sudden, like, you have I have walked away with this very powerful experience, you know, and that I don't think would have happened five years ago when I traveled because I would just be nervous even start a conversation. I'm not sure. You know, am I safe? Is that appropriate? How do I connect? Like, all of these skills I didn't have? So I think maybe practicing some of this with it. Like you said, it's okay, if you don't, you don't know. Like, it isn't something I think that comes by most people naturally.
But I think even I think of myself, like at networking events, because I'm a horrible networker, because I don't really like to talk about things that don't really, really matter. Like, I'm like, I want this conversation that we're having straight off the bat doesn't work for most people. So I have to write down a question of, you know, like, you know, what, what, what, what do you like? What makes you happy? A question you had shared with me like, What is your daily life? Like? Like some of those STAGE questions because you might not be able to do it right off the bat. And that's okay. Like, just know that and then just see, like, what happens. And I think when you start engaging that way, you're going to just be, well, you'll be like me, it'll be a problem, you'll be addicted to connecting to people in a real deep and meaningful way.
38:55
Yeah, another question that I like to ask is, how long have you lived here for? Because you're not assuming that the person's from that place? You just, you know, want to hear a story. And there could be a magnificent story about where that person could have been there their whole lives. And maybe they just came here last year, you never know. And that's also another, like a non non judgmental, open ended question to ask as well.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 39:20
Yeah. And I think as travelers, if you're engaging with someone who is, you know, working with you as a guide, or you know, the concierge at a hotel or something like that asking, how long have they worked in travel? Or, you know, how long have you worked as a guide because that was one of the things that led to this huge conversation about farming and, you know, the Mayan tradition and language like all of these things by simply just saying, like, have you been doing this work long, and so yeah, I love that so much. I feel like that is a really powerful way to start engaging. Another thing that I wanted to talk about is when we have these kinds of experiences, how do we start to integrate that and bring it back into our own lives. And you mentioned this, when you were younger, and when you came from Sri Lanka, back to the US, like that process of integration took a long time to kind of even bring that into your life. How do we, when we have these experiences when we travel, we don't want to let them go, we want them to be a part of who we are moving forward, like we've taken the time for travel to allow us to understand ourselves and to understand another part of the world. But I think it's easy to just like, let that slip.
40:41
I think there is. I mean, there's so many ways to answer that question. I think, when, when I was, when I was younger, and I came back from Sri Lanka, I was I was, I took some time to really think about my life, and how profoundly grateful I was to have electricity that didn't, you know, go off during the middle of the day, or thinking about the road just to keep up the basic infrastructure we just don't take time to think about and to be grateful for. And so I had to think about my life, then, when I was in Sri Lanka, and you know, what, just what it was like, and then I thought about my life, you know, in the United States, and I had to think about what I was grateful for. But I also have to ask myself, How do I want what I just experienced? To, to change me? And how has it changed me? I think oftentimes, I feel like when we travel, we're going away. Because we want to just let go get loose, and we come back sometimes, and it's like, oh, I'm back to the daily grind.
And I just don't feel like it doesn't have to be that way. I love being able to go to a place, and then really think about what it was about that place, or the people I spoke with, that I can integrate back into my life. So asking that question, and learning about someone's routine, you know, maybe they don't take life. So seriously, maybe that's the takeaway. Hmm, when I come back home, is there something that I can do? That reminds me of how this person lives that I can be inspired by and to integrate? Or maybe there was something that I did on the trip that helped me, you know, not be stressed out? What could I take that mentality and integrate that back into my daily life, it can be done. But the human brain always says, No, it can't be done, it can't be done, right, we separate. But if we ask ourselves those questions, and we acknowledge them, and we take the time, even on the plane, to reflect, and to write it down, I'm a big person that likes to write things down and to pay attention and to create the intention of I am going to live a more carefree lifestyle, or I am grateful that this person taught me this, I am going to incorporate x into my routine. He'll happen. It's just our intentions to.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 43:23
And I also think thank you for sharing those ideas. And I think what I love about them is that they seem accessible. And I think sometimes when we start having conversations around, like the transformational power of travel or being more mindful or presence, integrating, like, probably much like when you talk about the EI like all these words are words that people are like, I don't know what you're talking about. A lot of people don't know how to do that. That seems scary. That's intimidating. But like you said, just writing down, like what an awareness I had. What's the contrast? I think it's really easy to contrast, but like you said about with judgment, just like awareness, and then be like, I am grateful for great love, that has already shifted more inside yourself, then you can even understand, like, we don't have to be the ones creating this huge change.
Like we don't have to be the one in charge of it. It is already happening. Like it happened because of the experience, regardless of you acknowledging or not. But then when you add that awareness, that acknowledgement, just like it's in there a little deeper. And then if you think about it some more and like you said, you write about it. Maybe you come back to it three months from now and be like, what was that? What was that way? I felt like I'd lost it. And then you're like, Oh, that was that. So then like goes in a little bit further. I love that. It's something that people can do easily to create such a larger impact from a travel experience.
44:55
Absolutely. And even you know, honestly, if you just need a moment to take a break From whatever it is you're doing, you can close your eyes and visualize that place. And just get that feeling like you said, give that feeling back. And it may sound kind of ridiculous to some, but you try it and see what happens. And those are ways to definitely incorporate those experiences and those moments into your daily life. It's totally doable.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 45:23
Yeah. And I think when you really hang on to the energy and the emotion and the feeling of an experience, because that is something our bodies and our minds remember more fully anyway, it can stay with us longer, and we can share that with someone else. So I had two phone calls yesterday with women that they were, you're kind of sharing these ways that travel made us feel. And like, we could immediately connect to one another because we have felt that like, it doesn't really matter the destination or you know, anything like that it was this feeling. And then expressing that to someone else, I can share how I felt so much more deeply with someone then like, oh, the hotel was beautiful, the food was delicious, like, but this deeper, like just feeling is so much more transcendent. And I think it's powerful. And I love trying to share that with others. And again, also increasing travel experiences, like I'm trying to create those moments where they can harness that feeling like there's just these magic moments. And when you feel it, it's something that is so connective, like, Yeah, I'm going on a tangent.
46:36
And so it's true, because I think lately, I think that's another, you know, interesting question to ask people about who was there? What moment and travel just really transformed your life? Or do you remember it so well? Because it is transformative?
Christine Winebrenner Irick 46:55
Yeah. Well, I feel like there's so much more that I want to speak about. But we're gonna go over the limit if I ask any other big questions. Is there anything Sophia that you want to leave us with? Or encourage listeners, if they're curious about either mindfulness, if they're curious about how to learn more about diversity, equity, inclusion and travel, like what are resources or any less like wisdom you want to share with us?
47:25
So many resources? Well, I would love it if honestly, if people are interested in learning about the equity, diversity and inclusion work that I'm working on, with destination International, they actually have a lot of really good reports on a roadmap and understanding the they've done, they've started to do their EDI work in 2017. And so they've had these reports on the importance of diversity in travel. And so if they're if people are new, and just curious about what this is, I think there are already some really great resources. And we're only going to be coming out with more that are data driven. And the strategic roadmap I have right with me is just, it's really well done, especially with a policy mind that I have, it's very clear. So that's one. The other organization that I love is the Crest Center for Responsible Travel. And crest does a lot of fantastic work in responsible travel. But again, really thinking about the importance of sustainable travel, what does that mean? And how to be engaged, how to engage communities, and there's some really good reports they have. And just to learn more about, you know what this is, from a mindfulness standpoint, gosh, listen to your podcast. That's one.
And I think, you know, the other thing I'd like to leave people with is that it doesn't have to be this big, you know, insurmountable thing, mindfulness doesn't have to be, it can be done in increments. Every morning, I wake up, and I take three intentional breaths for myself to start my day. It can be that simple. It can be another useful thing that I do to bring myself or to ground myself, give myself perspective, is to pay attention to my footsteps. And that brings me back to a place to look at my surroundings. Or if you're sensitive to being able to hold on to something if you're in a place like feeling things. So tune into your senses, and a very doable and user community, their community is around you. So just be your authentic and genuine self. The best way you can and people will support that.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 49:45
Thank you. I totally do the feet all the time. Like I am a person who is up here most of the time, and I'm like, I need to get back in my body. I need to get back to focus like get out of your head girl. Like wiggling my toes, I just went on my toes. And it just seems too simple, right? But I'm like, okay, there we are. But all the time or walking, paying attention to your feet, the three breaths is amazing if anybody is listening, when you're done, if you just took three breaths, it's so crazy how much that can change how you feel. I do that with my three daughters, all the time. They're like, they'll even be like, they come to me. And they call it a heart hug, and I hold them. And we just do three breaths together. And like, 99% of the time, whatever else is happening is just fine. After that, like the power of three breaths and your feet, it seems crazy, but it will change people's lives. It went really well. And the other one, like you said, senses when I was traveling, I often start thinking about like, oh, what's a great shot for Instagram? Oh, this is a story I could write, oh, this is really interesting.
Oh, I don't want to forget this moment. Like me again, like I started getting so much in my head. And one of my guests mentioned that actually another one of the guests, they were traveling together and both doing that. She's like, here's what I do. I stop and I say, What can I hear? What can I smell? What do I feel? And you're like, you just again, you like, come so much into yourself. And then the experience is so much richer, because now you're noticing those things. And you're like, I didn't notice I could smell the jungle around me right now. Or I didn't notice I could feel the moisture on my skin. And then it just creates something. And I think doing that in your daily life, which I'm very bad at, is also really powerful to just stop and like you said, just ask your senses, what are they experiencing? And it just really changes your appreciation for what's happening around you and just like helps you to calm down and center. If you have that issue. I feel like I'm not alone in that.
52:06
I have it and I do it with my son. I do with him too. That's exactly what I do. And we go out and we walk and I asked him all these questions and he'll he'll tune in and it helps me tune into so it's it's working in this is these are things you know that that we that we have to remind ourselves that we're doing
Christine Winebrenner Irick 52:27
Well, Sophia, as we end our conversation, I just encourage listeners to check out the resources you mentioned. So glad you mentioned crest, I had wanted to bring them into this conversation. So that'll just be a teaser that people need to learn more, but I have our seven rapid fire-ish questions to end our conversation. So we'll jump into those next here. What is your favorite book or movie that offers you a travel escape or inspires you to adventure?
52:56
Oh my goodness. And looking around. Beyond guilt trips is is a really good book that we use
Christine Winebrenner Irick 53:07
for reading that in my book sojourn next month and I cannot wait. What is always in your suitcase when you travel?
53:17
Always in my suitcase. Oh, this is hard. You know what I bring? I bring? Aromatherapy is like a scent. I have it right here. I bring just like a little aromatherapy bottle with me. Yeah.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 53:28
That is good. What has been your favorite destination?
53:33
Oh my goodness. These are hard. They are what takes me back. I have to say, you know, the first transformational moment I had was in Myanmar.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 53:46
Where have you been so long to visit?
53:49
Everywhere. I Gosh, these are so hard. I longed to go back to Sri Lanka. I haven't been there since I was 10.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 54:00
i It keeps calling me so maybe we'll get to go together. That would be amazing. What do you eat that immediately connects you to a place you've been
54:10
Bengali food. My mom's cooking?
Christine Winebrenner Irick 54:13
Was the person that inspired or encouraged you to set out and explore the
54:17
world. My parents? Both really?
Christine Winebrenner Irick 54:21
Yeah. And if you could take an adventure with one person fictional or real live or past two, it would be
54:28
I would take an adventurer with my grandparents that the ones I have not met, so I could experience life through their lens. Yeah,
Christine Winebrenner Irick 54:41
That would be amazing. Sophia, we knew we wouldn't have enough time but we've got it in there. So I appreciate you coming on and sharing. I feel like there's so much more so maybe we'll have to have a part two, but thank you for being here today.
54:55
Thank you for creating the space Christine.
Christine Winebrenner Irick 55:15
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